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Sheba: Are she and Apollo destined for each other?
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:05 am    Post subject: Sheba: Are she and Apollo destined for each other? Reply with quote

Well?
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epaddon



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in any Galactica universe I'm associated with writing wise, it's always a truism! Wink
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As in mine.
And your reasons?
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mikedx
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely!

Why?

Well they are both commanders children, so only they know what that's like. They both respect each other's abilities as a warrior. The charisma is certainly there.

Of course we don't know how Boxey would have reacted and we didn't see Sheba interact with him (did we?) so we don't know how she is around children. I think it's more likely there would have been at least some issues with Boxey being afraid of giving up some attention from his stepdad and "betraying" his mother.

But with all that said, I think in the theme of the 1978 show they would have hit it off, Sheba and Boxey would have talked about his mother, and things would have been fine.
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you baiting me, Sen? Very Happy

No. I don't think they'd go the distance. I see why they're attracted to each other, especially coming from similar backgrounds, but I think they're both too intense, stubborn, used to doing things their own way to stay together.

I wrote a scene in my current story where Sheba confronts Apollo about treating her differently than the other warriors. Protectively. Ugh! I see this being their biggest issue.

All I have time for, as I have to motor to work. Wink Wink

Lisa
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LZaza wrote:
Are you baiting me, Sen? Very Happy




M Cool I???
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LZaza



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. Slightly more time now.
First of all, the way Apollo was protrayed, he originally became engaged to Serine when she was a former reporter/mother of a cute kid. When she became a warrior the waves, they started rolling. Unfortunately, for poor Apollo and Boxey, she died.

I think that experience would stick with Apollo and rub on his responsibility gene. Rub it raw, in fact. Here's a guy who likely works 12 centar days at a minimum. After all, the role of the Colonial Warrior in the original series seemed to be broadly defined as 'they do what doesn't seem to be anyone else's job'. Spacewalking. Demolitions. Ground assault. Checking for solium leaks. You get my drift. So, after his more than fulltime job, he might just want to spend some time with Boxey. Unless he has triad practice . . . or is monitoring gamma frequencies in the Celestial Dome . . . Wink Like that leaves much time for romance, speaking as a parent. A tired parent.

Anyhow, I really see Apollo as ultimately wanting someone who wasn't out flying vipers for a living. Boxey has already lost his Dad . . . whoever that was . . . his mom, shortly after her becoming a Viper pilot. I think that old responsibility gene would make Apollo think twice about committing to Sheba in the longterm. Especially when he could just as easily die in combat.

Not that there couldn't be a passionate, intense, torrid affair. The Lords know they could both use one. However, though they are both the offspring of Commanders, Adama and Cain couldn't be much more different. I see Sheba and Apollo as reflections of their parents to a certain extent. They both inherit the strong will, determination, duty . . . but I actually see Sheba, also as a only child, as being accustomed to being treated with the measure of importance accorded to the only daughter of Cain, and Ace Viper pilot. She has an ego--which is so totally refreshing in the female BSG characters--and I see her having difficulty playing second or third fiddle to Apollo's many other priorities. Remember how she shone under Iblis' attention? She craved that feeling of being special.

Face it, gang. The single parent Strike Captain with the best friend who loves to party and gamble isn't really that much of a catch. Rolling Eyes
However, I also think Apollo could potentially fall in love with Sheba --torrid affair scenario--and then try to figure out how they could make it work. I think he hates to disappoint anyone. Serina reeled him in like a fish on a hook, and even Sheba made the first move. I get the idea that ole Apollo tended to follow someone else's lead in matters of the heart. Nope, he wasn't exactly the 'sweep her off her feet' kind of guy.
At least that's my take on it. The fun part is getting them together, and then letting it fall apart. At least in fanfiction.

Mushies for thought. Very Happy

Lisa
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epaddon



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where I disagree with your assessment of Lisa is that I think it overstates the nature of how much is Sheba really a carbon copy of her father in all respects. I think in analyzing Sheba, one reason why I do think she and Apollo would stay together is because Sheba does after all have a good deal of her mother in her (and I'll do another thread at some point offering my speculations on what kind of person her mother had to be) and I think in addition to resembling her mother (the idea of course being that if we were ever casting the part for a flashback sequence, it would only be June Lockhart) Sheba likewise understands how difficult it had to have been for her mother to be separated from her husband so often because of his warrior duties, and his enjoyment of battle.

Growing up in that kind of environment, in which let's face it, Cain was likely an absentee husband and father for a good chunk of the yahren, I think would have tempered that one part of Sheba's persona that instinctively takes after Cain. Yes, she has Cain's desire to be a warrior, to follow in his path, and to excel at it, but I think she's also deep down mindful of certain flaws in her father that her pride would never like to admit openly and at the top of that list would be her memory of how difficult it was for her mother to go through life without her husband at so many critical moments.

So in that context, I think Sheba would welcome the opportunity to be married to someone she would be working alongside with, because that kind of long-term relationship would mean she (in her mind) has not let herself fall into the situation that her own parents went through. Apollo and Sheba would have a marriage where they would be able to work with each other on a constant basis, and understand better how to attend to each other's needs.

My two cubits.
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think an added benefit, from Sheba's POV, re marriage with Apollo, is that unlike Cain, he would always be close by, should she need him in a crisis/whatever. I am sure Cain missed many milestones in Sheba's life, probably even her birth. Everything from first tooth to first date. I agree with EP, Sheba wants to avoid what she (privately) deems to have been flaws in Cain's "parenting style". The wholly unnatural, and unexpected, nature of life in the Fleet makes Apollo being in close proximity a given, unlike Cain.
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epaddon



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a supplement to my earlier post, I think Sheba's mindfulness of what her mother went through, which had to be a strain she saw on a daily basis while growing up, would also explain in part her instinctive bitterness toward Cain's relationship with Cassiopeia.
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She would likely see it as a sort of "disloyalty" towards her mother's memory by Cain. There seems to be something in the Human psyche that sees such a woman as the "evil" stepmother. Sheba is no different from countless generations before her.
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mikedx
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I think the fact that Cassi was close to her own age made a difference as well.
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikedx wrote:
well I think the fact that Cassi was close to her own age made a difference as well.


Please elaborate.
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LZaza



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

epaddon wrote:
Where I disagree with your assessment of Lisa is that I think it overstates the nature of how much is Sheba really a carbon copy of her father in all respects. I think in analyzing Sheba, one reason why I do think she and Apollo would stay together is because Sheba does after all have a good deal of her mother in her (and I'll do another thread at some point offering my speculations on what kind of person her mother had to be) and I think in addition to resembling her mother (the idea of course being that if we were ever casting the part for a flashback sequence, it would only be June Lockhart) Sheba likewise understands how difficult it had to have been for her mother to be separated from her husband so often because of his warrior duties, and his enjoyment of battle.

Growing up in that kind of environment, in which let's face it, Cain was likely an absentee husband and father for a good chunk of the yahren, I think would have tempered that one part of Sheba's persona that instinctively takes after Cain. Yes, she has Cain's desire to be a warrior, to follow in his path, and to excel at it, but I think she's also deep down mindful of certain flaws in her father that her pride would never like to admit openly and at the top of that list would be her memory of how difficult it was for her mother to go through life without her husband at so many critical moments.

So in that context, I think Sheba would welcome the opportunity to be married to someone she would be working alongside with, because that kind of long-term relationship would mean she (in her mind) has not let herself fall into the situation that her own parents went through. Apollo and Sheba would have a marriage where they would be able to work with each other on a constant basis, and understand better how to attend to each other's needs.

My two cubits.


Oh, I don't think that Sheba is a carbon copy of Cain at all, Eric. I'm merely pointing out the traits --some of them probably from Cain, but could be just as likely from her mother who we know so little about--I saw her portray in the original series. Examples--Standing off against Apollo in the landing bay of the Pegasus; treating Cassiopeia rudely when she refused to have a drink with the med tech and Cain; trying to make Apollo jealous in War of the Gods; the Raider scene in the Hand of God where she puts on a pout worthy of Boxey. This is a passionate woman who shows every emotion openly. More examples-- Her compassion for Starbuck when he admits Chameleon was using him in the Man With Nine Lives; her open grieving when Apollo is killed by Iblis; her humour when she zings Starbuck about throwing the mission to avoid paying off a bet. Its her passion that I love about Sheba's character. She's multi-faceted and far more interesting than other female characters because of it.

And really my supposition about Sheba and Apollo not going the distance has far more to do with Apollo not wanting Boxey to lose another parent. I believe Apollo would ultimately decide he needs a more stable partner, one who isn't likely to be shot down without warning --in front of his eyes, leaving him feeling helpless in Serina's case. Imagine the guilt he must have gone through, especially since he was standing right there. He must have nightmares about it. He's a passionate man too. Think of his arguments with Adama, Serina, in front of Council, zingers to Sire Uri. He goes for the full frontal assault when he disagrees with something. Much like Sheba.

Instead of 'attending to one another's needs' I see Sheba and Apollo getting into a lot of fights based on those passionate characteristics. Who would back down? I don't think their characters would change just because they fell in love. The issues would still exist. Boxey could still potentially lose his father, as well now as his father's wife.

I'd be curious as to your thoughts on Cain's wife. See, I figure she had to be one Hades of a woman to not only catch his attention and keep it, but to raise his daughter. I see Sheba doing a fair amount of rebeling in the teen yahrens when Dad was away. Hmm. Maybe this is where I could connect Sheba and Starbuck. Reminiscing about their wild teens yahrens of rebellion.


Wink

Anyhow, as I've said before, the interesting thing about fanfiction is the varying directions we can take these characters and it's inevitable that we're not going to see eye to eye on occasion. Have to admit, I do enjoy the debate. Smile

Lisa
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

epaddon wrote:
As a supplement to my earlier post, I think Sheba's mindfulness of what her mother went through, which had to be a strain she saw on a daily basis while growing up, would also explain in part her instinctive bitterness toward Cain's relationship with Cassiopeia.


Ah, I hadn't seen this part before. Perhaps we also see Sheba's mother differently. I would think that the woman would do everything in her power to give Sheba a normal childhood, and would strive to not emote before her daughter any negative feelings towards the father's absence. In fact, I also see Cain looking for a woman strong enough to 'hold down the fort' while he was away, which was likely more often than not.

Really, there are enough single women out there (back on Earth now) holding down jobs, more than one child, dealing with ex's, who do a fine job of parenting.

But back to your comment above, I simply see it as a jealousy. A reasonable reaction to Cassiopeia taking the mother's place, when perhaps Sheba sought to then be at her father's side offering him the kind of support that he could evidently only find in the arms of a socialator.

Lisa
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