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Cain: The real man.
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: Cain: The real man. Reply with quote

Okay, Cain. Yes, he thrives on combat, but what ultimately drives him? What, or who, is the real inner man?
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epaddon



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devotion to duty and egotistical pride in his own ability explains his basic nature.

Applying the question more to the issue of what is at Cain's psyche when he clashes with Adama in "Living Legend" as to why he wants to keep fighting the Cylons and not "escape" as Adama insists they must. It's not just a simple matter of Cain having to fight, it's also within him a deep sense of guilt that also explains why he leaves the Galactica and IMO goes off to keep fighting the Cylons on his own rather than join the search for Earth. The fact that Cain considers himself the greatest warrior the Colonies ever produced can only make him feel a terrible sense of guilt inside over the fact that at the one moment in history when he was most needed, the Destruction of the Colonies, he wasn't there.

That to me, is the unspoken part of Apollo's acid remark in Pt. 2 "Are you thinking of your place in history? The legend of Commander Cain?" Cain feels a need to fight to the end as best he can to make up for what he would never admit openly, but which inside he knows was his greatest failure. If he'd tried to get back home to the Colonies instead of being off in the Gomorrah region and letting the Colonies think he was dead, he knows in his mind he could have made a difference. It doesn't matter if that represents the reality of what he could have done (maybe he couldn't have made a difference since after all he was not a poltiican who could have prevented the fake peace treaty from being signed), but it matters as to whether *he* believes it.
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent. Very good. I also suspect that there is some sort of history between he and Baltar.
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MAD
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect there's some sort of history between him and Adama too. Wink
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LZaza



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

epaddon wrote:
Devotion to duty and egotistical pride in his own ability explains his basic nature.


Actually, sounds a lot like Starbuck.

Very Happy
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MAD
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LZaza wrote:
epaddon wrote:
Devotion to duty and egotistical pride in his own ability explains his basic nature.


Actually, sounds a lot like Starbuck.

Very Happy


Maybe that's why Cassiopeia fancies them both, or was Cain just "work" and Starbuck "real love"?
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LZaza



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Cassie loved them both. By the scenes she did with Cain, I think it was evident that there were some significant feelings between them. However, I also think she was on a more equal footing with Starbuck. Cain seemed to 'call the shots' which was likely because of the socialator style relationship.

So what would have happened between Cain and Cassie had the Pegasus not disappeared that episode? And who would have been left standing alone?
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Cain would have given her up. His daughter was all he had left, besides the war. And to keep her from sinking deeper into anger, and losing her because of a relationship she saw as wrong, he would have bowed out.
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MAD
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Cain wouldn't have needed to give Cassie up. I rather see it that Cassie moved on to Starbuck and Cain was just a man she had a "relationship" with in the past. And regarding Sheba's view on Cassie I'd like to quote Lisa's Throw me a Line:

LZaza wrote:
Yet, he was off limits because of a certain med tech that she knew and admired, especially after Cassiopeia had risked her life for Bojay, a man she scarcely knew, on Gamoray, totally changing her opinion of the woman who had replaced Sheba’s mother at Cain’s side not long after Bethany’s horrible death.

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LZaza



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Marcel on this . . . and not just because he quoted my story. Wink

I really see Sheba's early reaction to Cassie as a sign of her immaturity and in reaction to losing her mother. I think she would have been very close to her mother since Cain would have been away most of her young life becoming that Living Legend. So I can understand her reaction. But once she realized that Cassie wasn't quite the father stealing ogre that she had first thought, I think this issue would have resolved.

And, I don't think Cain would be a man that gave up what he needed or desired because of his daughter's emotional reaction. I believe he would put himself first, especially if he decided that Sheba was over-reacting.

And, if Cassie had had a chance to stand back and look at the aging Commander with a resentful daughter, next to the oh so sexy lieutenant . . . well . . . duh!!!
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Immature? Perhaps, but such a streak runs through Cain's family. It took something shocking to make Sheba see things in a new light. She does not change her mind quickly or easily.
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LZaza



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say it took something shocking to change Sheba's mind, are you referring to Cassie saving Bojay? Or something else?

I thought it was simply seeing Cassie in a new light that made Sheba realize she hadn't given Cassie . . . or Cain, enough credit.
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. She had this mental image set in stone, of Cassie as basically a tart who desecrated her mother's memory. NOT logical, no, but then such interpersonal dynamics in families seldom are. Seeing this daddy-stealing tart transformed into a heroic med-tech who risks all to save her friend and fellow-warrior Bojay rocked her back on her heels, and made her both see Cassie in a new light, and grow up a little. The fact that later she confessed some of this to her father tells me she harbored some resentment there as well, and realized she needed to clear the slates all around.
Another strength of Sheba's.
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"The dull mind rises to Truth through that which is material." -Suger

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LZaza



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Sheba basically told it the way she saw it . . . whether or not she was right. What you see, is what you get.
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Senmut
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I said.
Wasn't it?
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