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Sheba: Are she and Apollo destined for each other?
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 904
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL. I thought Adama was over the top too. First time I ever felt critical of Lorne Greene's portrayal, but again, it was probably more the writing. I think it was that line about loving Starbuck like a son. I just couldn't see Adama stating that so publicly.
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epaddon



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 711

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And when the script doesn't even have an allusion to Apollo's fate, that also is another negative (we did hear Starbuck refer to Athena and Cassiopeia as still alive then).

And I have to also admit, I can only appreciate the episode better because of the "Wheel of Fire" script which clarified the SOL involvement in ROS and also gave me a launching point to do my G84 trilogy so long ago.
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Refresh my memory on that script . . .

Frankly, I have trouble picturing Starbuck as a Ship of Light Being. Like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
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epaddon



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Wheel Of Fire", an unproduced G80 script involves at its basic core having to retrieve a Cylon fighter and damaged centurion that ended up going back in time to Earth's past, and Troy, Dillon and even renegade Xavier have to work together to make sure no damage is caused to Earth history by this (I may have a few details rusty on this point). One part of the plot involves the reintroduction of the SOL with Starbuck appearing to Troy.

At any rate, ROS IMO only makes sense at all if you realize the whole story is about sizing up Starbuck's ability to become an SOL being. Angela is clearly an SOL being and all that stuff about judging Starbuck's character etc. only makes sense in that context. And in the G84 trilogy I wrote, I expanded further on that idea by suggesting that the reason why they wanted to see if Starbuck was worthy of becoming part of the SOL, was because Starbuck was ultimately the one destined to help Apollo find his way back from his horrible fate.
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 904
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric, if Starbuck is destined to become an SOL being to ultimately help Apollo, then that's about the only reason I could see him "evolving" to that other level.

I've said it before that I thought Starbuck's test in ROS was pretty lame, considering it meant sacrificing himself for a woman and baby, when he'd certainly made more selfless sacrifices as a warrior defending the Fleet and coming to the assistance of his comrades several times before this, most notably Apollo.

Ultimately, I never much liked the idea of Starbuck in a supporting role, which was about all a guy can get as an SOL Being. Starbuck-light is just not my vision for any continuation of BSG . . . after all, it was all about "the boys" to me.
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epaddon



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I always take the view that anything that is associated with the universe of G80 that we try to "fix" automatically means sacrificing our views of what it *should* be like because G80 shattered the template so much that it's almost miraculous in and of itself if you can come up with a solution that can bring the missing regulars back in some way. Regular continuations, VS etc. allow us to explore the characters as we like to see them develop, but G80 is another thing entirely. And thus, in the G80 realm, Starbuck's role makes perfect sense IMO.
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it would, as you're an Apollo fan. Wink
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epaddon



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but G80 already *gave* us the ROS set-up and thus that short-circuited many other solutions/possibilities on how to bring Starbuck back into the world of G80 in general. Those whose fates were never addressed in G80 admittedly do offer more flexibility in terms of trying to account for their absences or how to bring them back.

I think though that when my G90 story starts running, you will at least be glad to know that Apollo's appearance does not stay the same in ALL fanfic universes. Very Happy
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm only saying that a continuation attempt from a Starbuckian pov would feature Starbuck, while a continuation attempt from a Apollo-fan pov would of course feature Apollo.

Obviously, since I have no use for the way Starbuck was continued in G-1980, as a BSG Starbuckian writer I wouldn't touch that universe.

Which makes it perfect fodder for you Apollo driven writers.

Regardless, I look forward to your story, Eric. As always. Will be nice to see a departure from the VS for you. Since I've been on the list, you've exclusively written for the Virtual Season project.
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epaddon



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I had truthfully thought I'd never do anything other than the VS again (even though there are still several episodes I never adapted), but it's nice that I found reason to change my mind there!
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Senmut
Persona Specialitas


Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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Location: Soviet of Washington, ex-USA

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LZaza wrote:


I've said it before that I thought Starbuck's test in ROS was pretty lame, considering it meant sacrificing himself for a woman and baby, when he'd certainly made more selfless sacrifices as a warrior defending the Fleet and coming to the assistance of his comrades several times before this, most notably Apollo.



But, in those situations, SB had a home to go back to, if he made it. Either the Colonies, or the Fleet. In ROS, even if he survives the next few days, he knows that by sacrificing what seems his only way out, for people he has never met before, he is dooming himself. No Colonies, no Fleet, no rescue. It's not like burning up in combat, or rotting on Atilla. He will die of thirst/starvation. A very ugly way to go. But he makes the choice, and sacrifices himself for others. After all, if he hadn't, who back in the Fleet would know?
It is a much, much deeper test that it seems on the surface. And Starbuck passes it beautifully.
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LZaza



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Starbuck would have been considering how he would die when he made that decision, Sen. As always, he would do it from a sense of honour.

Besides, there several ways he could have made it off that planet, explored by wonderful fan fiction authors over the years. That would be Starbuck's opinion. That if the fighter wasn't going to take him, he'd find some other way. He was an optimist.
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